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  • Lord’s Prayer challenged; Lawsuit threatened against commission for prayer, Ten Commandments picture
    5 months ago | 3667 views | 50 50 comments | 21 21 recommendations | email to a friend | print
    By DEREK HODGES

    Staff Writer

    SEVIERVILLE — A Washington-based legal group says it may sue to get the County Commission to stop opening its meetings with the Lord’s Prayer and to take down a picture depicting the Ten Commandments.

    County Mayor Larry Waters has vowed to dig in against the demand.

    Rob Boston, a spokesman for Americans United for Separation of Church and State (AU), said his organization received a citizen complaint about the prayer and the picture. Though a letter AU sent to county officials in mid-February doesn’t specifically mention legal action, it seems clear the group is prepared to file suit if need be.

    “We do have a staff of lawyers, but we do try to work these issues out outside of court,” Boston told The Mountain Press on Monday. “We do litigate, though.”

    A document composed by AU lawyers was sent to Waters on Feb. 17 to distribute to all 25 commissioners. In it, AU staff attorney Ian Smith demands that the county change its ways and report back within 10 days.

    “We are writing to request that you end the prayer practice and remove the poster in order to ensure compliance with the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution,” Smith wrote. It requests a response within 10 days.

    The county has yet to respond. Waters said Monday no change is planned.

    “I think it’s appropriate to say a prayer at the beginning of the meetings and I’m going to continue doing so,” Waters said.

    For as long as Waters has been mayor — more than three decades — he has started each session by inviting people to stand and join in reciting the Lord’s Prayer, a liturgy spoken by Jesus in the New Testament. In a letter to the commissioners informing them of the complaint, Waters said he’s never known anyone to have an issue with the practice.

    “It appears that this is similar to the harassing complaints that many county officials have received,” Waters wrote, explaining Monday that he believes AU was informed of the situation by a member of a local group that says it’s determined to “reform” county government. “I have been Sevier County mayor for 32 years and we have prayed before every County Commission meeting, and I fully intend to keep doing so.”

    The county is not alone in praying before meetings. Bodies ranging from Congress to state legislatures to city councils in Sevier County use prayer in their sessions.

    Likewise, Water said he’s ready to fight to maintain the picture, which includes an illustration of the Ten Commandments.

    “We have also never had a complaint about any of the pictures in the meeting room,” Waters wrote. “I also have no intention of removing the picture.”

    The depiction actually hangs in a multipurpose room in the courthouse, which serves not only as the meeting space for the County Commission, but also hosts court proceedings occasionally. Courts across the country have ordered illustrations of the Ten Commandments removed from judicial buildings.

    Boston, meanwhile, believes both the picture and the prayer could land the county in court. The letter from AU’s Smith cites a number of court rulings that back up that belief. The issue for AU is that the Lord’s Prayer is a specifically Christian liturgy, despite the fact that it never mentions Jesus and doesn’t use the word “God” or any other name assigned to the Christian deity, Boston said.

    The Supreme Court has ruled that prayers are allowed at such gatherings provided they are not specific to any given religion.

    “It’s a no-brainer that it’s a Christian prayer,” he said. “I think that (arguing it’s not) would be a bit of a reach.”

    The courts have interpreted the First Amendment to mean that government-endorsed displays of any one faith are in violation of the Constitution.

    Boston suggested the county consider switching to a moment of silence or invite in persons of other faiths to offer prayers, as well. However, even such an invitation can be tricky. AU recently was party in a lawsuit that forced Forsyth County, N.C., to abandon the practice after it determined the county’s prayers were “actually about 95 percent” Christian, Boston said.

    Boston maintains the group isn’t grinding an axe, but rather trying to keep the public forum a welcoming place for everyone.

    “It’s not because we’re hostile to Christianity or any other religion. It’s simply because we believe religion is something that is better left to private houses of worship,” he said. “I hope situations like this can serve as a type of education for people. It’s better for all concerned if the government remains neutral in matters of faith.”

    dhodges@themountainpress.com
    comments (50)
    « eelizabeth wrote on Saturday, May 01 at 10:48 AM »
    Nobody is trying to take your prayers, or religion away. Worship in appropriate places, not at city/county metings.

    « born in seviercounty wrote on Sunday, Apr 04 at 11:45 AM »
    lets NOT sit by and watch prayer be taken from us like we did with the schools..Sevier county is a stand up and fite state.If we need everyone we will be there....
    « VannS wrote on Friday, Mar 12 at 01:04 AM »
    Just as a reminder. In God We Trust, One Nation Under God, God Bless America. Simple statements from the history of our Country. What about that book that everyone in court testifys on? What about the book the president gets sworn in on? What was that called again? Oh yeah, the Bible. Hard to take religion out of that.
    « VannS wrote on Friday, Mar 12 at 12:59 AM »
    I believe that all religion is to be honored. That was in our Constitution. Place the curan there and a budah idol, but leave Jesus and God alone.
    « Paula R wrote on Sunday, Mar 07 at 05:48 PM »
    I think a few thousand of us should be at the next meeting and pray with our leaders and show our support for the precious freedoms that we enjoy...

    This is our community...this is where we raise our children and care for our fellow man and serve our God...We shouldn't stand for some group in Washington telling us what our values are going to be.

    It's time for the church to rise up! Let God arise and his enemies be scattered...

    See ya at the next meeting...
    « J Isenhoward wrote on Sunday, Mar 07 at 04:50 PM »
    Just a Thought!!! Have you ever heard of the Masons- well food for thought- several of the men who signed the Declaration of Independence were Masons- Several Presidents of the united States were Masons MASONS are a group of men who have a religous background and stand for something.. If our country in for which you live can be formed on religion then why can we not still say the Lord's Prayer and have a chance to view the Ten Commandments!!!! I'm not saying that you or anyone else must take part in either of these things ----BUT THIS IS WHAT OUR COUNTRY WAS FORMED ON !!!!!! *****IF BY CHANCE, YOU DO NOT LIKE WHAT WE DO IN THIS COUNTRY THERE IS STILL A COUNTRY CALLED ENGLAND--- REMEMBER THE BOSTON TEA PARTY- THE PILGRIMS----- NEED I CONTINUE

    « Educate Yourselves wrote on Sunday, Mar 07 at 02:51 PM »
    Just remember, if you want to keep the 10 Commandments in the commission chamber, get ready for the Four Noble Truths of Buddhism, the Wiccan Rede, the Code of Hammurabi, the Muslim Call to Prayer, etc.- or even the Flying Spaghetti Moinster- to also be posted right along side of what is already posted there.

    It is either any who request their religious tenants to be posted, or none of them. Is Sevier Co. ready to be that inclusive?
    « Jesus is real! wrote on Friday, Mar 05 at 10:24 PM »
    Islamic Terrorist would love to get us to continue arguing over subjects like this! Just remember " In God We Trust "! If you don' t believe in the ten commandments or God then you will see that you are not going to be happy with anything in life. True happiness Is knowing God. Just think how he loves you no matter how twisted you way of thinking may be! If you don't beleive me then read the bible! He really loves you no matter how many times you turn you back towards him. Who else do you know that continues to love you when you treat them badly! No one but Jesus Christ!
    « Windy French wrote on Friday, Mar 05 at 09:50 AM »
    Is there a petition we as Sevier Countians can sign to keep the Ten Commandments and The Lord's Prayer in the County Commission Meetings? We need to stand up for our God and our County and our Freedom of Speech!! Thank you. If there is such a petition please let us know in The Mountain Press so that all Sevier Countains can have the right to sign it and have a voice in this matter!
    « prayon wrote on Friday, Mar 05 at 07:24 AM »
    While the Constitution may be the law of the land. Christians are accountable to God. Christians have sat idle for too long, never wanting to offend, allowing other religions the right to pray anytime they want, to the detriment of OUR own rights. Pray On. Fight the good fight. Hold firm, God knew this test was coming and if your heart is in the right place, and if you truly know Him you have nothing to fear. What's next, no more pledge of allegance? The time is here for Christians to say, "you can't take anything else away from me. I as a Christian have the same right to pray as you to my God as you have to disbelieve that He exists!"
    « S. Parton wrote on Thursday, Mar 04 at 08:22 PM »
    Larry,just remember you are not standing alone.May God bless you and give you all the strength that you need to stand for what is right.

    THANK YOU SO MUCH.
    « reba c wrote on Thursday, Mar 04 at 02:32 PM »
    Waters will lose and lose badly. Hide and watch.

    No religion in government now nor was it ever intended to be! Ever read the constitution? Many falsely believe this to be an "attack" on their religion and draws boxing gloves out of the woodwork. Nothing further from the truth. Toss out the southern backward mentality and wake up to the real issue.

    Again, Waters and the entire commission will lose.
    « Forrest Erickson wrote on Thursday, Mar 04 at 10:02 AM »
    The Constitution of the United States is the supreme law of the land.

    The Hebrew ten commandment are not. The Catholic ten commandments are not. the Protestant ten commandments are not.

    For this we should be grateful and proud. Our constitution is a vast improvement over the ideas of tribal government stemming from the bronze age.

    For instance, we outlaw slavery, we no longer stone our children to death, women are full citizens.

    Who was it that said our constitution creates "a wall of separation between church and state"? Some "east cost liberal". Well, yes Thomas Jefferson.

    « Burt Likko wrote on Thursday, Mar 04 at 09:50 AM »
    Rich Hailey:

    How would you feel if the County Commission opened its meeting with this prayer:

    Almighty Allah, guide and protect us as we journey to bring our land into Your house. Grant us righteousness and justice and wisdom. As Your Prophet, may Peace be upon him, has instructed, we turn to the sacred Ka'aba, and supplicate ourselves to Your will. Allahu akhbar.

    According to your reasoning, there is nothing to stop the mayor from leading the county's meetings in that prayer. But I bet you're not a Muslim and you probably would feel, well, a little bit uncomfortable to see your local government leaders espousing the Muslim faith while discharging their official duties.

    That's how non-Christians feel when they see the Ten Commandments on the wall and hear the County Commission opening its meetings with the Lord’s Prayer. No one should have to feel that way about their government.

    There's nothing to stop the Commissioners and the Mayor from unofficially gathering before the meeting and praying there. But that wouldn't be the point, would it?
    « Rosey 2 wrote on Wednesday, Mar 03 at 06:47 PM »
    These people in Washington need to mind their business. Way to go Mr. Waters and we need more people like him.

    I am so tired of individuals trying to stop Christians from praying. It is so hard to be a Christian without being persecuted.
    « Rich Hailey wrote on Wednesday, Mar 03 at 06:13 PM »
    Publicola: The 10 Commandments are still fully in force, as Jesus said in Matt 5:17-19. The difference is that now the price of our sins has been paid for us.

    Separation: It's freedom OF religion, not FROM religion, and the phrase you love appears nowhere in the Constitution. The First Amendment says that Congress may not enact a state sponsored religion, nor can it restrict the free exercise, which means that if a group of people want to pray, they can. Period. The measure is not whether somebody might be offended, but if there is any actual bias shown favoring members of one religion over another.

    Terence: You might want to check into who exactly began the tradition of opening COngressional sessions with a prayer. It was Benjamin Franklin, who stated that without guidance from the Creator, Congress would surely fail in its duties.

    Somehow I doubt he'd be aghast at the idea of a prayer to start a commissioner's meeting.

    I stand fully behind the County Mayor.
    « Sandy68 wrote on Wednesday, Mar 03 at 01:34 PM »
    I want to thank Mr. Waters for standing up for his beliefs and what is right for America. I believe we all need to stand up for the right thing and do not let a few take away all our rights. We were a country founded on religion and we have stood strong for the past 200 years, start taking all our beliefs away and our country will go down before long. We can't take God out of our country, we need to stay "One nation under God" as we were founded upon.
    « Brian Craven wrote on Wednesday, Mar 03 at 08:16 AM »
    Although I do not know Mr. Waters, I want him to know that these specific actions of his are fully supported even here in SC. I appreciate his standing firm. Government has completely forgotten what this country means, what it once stood for, and what made it a great nation. Carving the Christian faith out of it and out of our leaders only weakens it. It is obvious that this country's decline parallels the lack of its Christian faith and removal of Christ from its foundations. Take your stand, Mr. Waters - others are with you.
    « A Christian wrote on Tuesday, Mar 02 at 10:45 PM »
    Apparently Jesus foresaw what would go on in Sevier County, with mean, petty, hypocritical, self-pious Pharisees aka politicians misusing his religion. After all, he warned sternly in the Sermon on the Mount (Matt 6:5 & 6)--

    "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

    "But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."

    « schssoccer7 wrote on Tuesday, Mar 02 at 10:36 PM »
    Thank you goes out to Larry Waters for taking the proper stand!! We need way more men like him in this country doing that and then maybe we would be headed in the direction that we are!!! How many children, teachers, public in general need to get shot before we take this country back. I don't remember learning in my history classes about things like that happening when there was prayer in schools, government buildings, etc. I pray that Mr. Waters doesn't give in and that we fight this til we win. The picture needs to stay and the prayer needs to stay!!!

    Mr. Waters, I moved here over 8 years ago from Michigan and it is because of people like you!!! Thank you and I want you to know that you have the full support of the Spears/Gareau family.